Angel Ochoa is a 10th Quarter student at Life Chiropractic College West who transferred from University of Western States. He posted a video almost exactly 1 year ago that has hit nearly 2000 views on YouTube and is still getting responses nearly everyday. In it, Angel describes the feeling of despair while attending a school that didn't match his philosophy of chiropractic, and the renewed excitement and love for the profession he has gained since transferring.

In our discussion, Angel shares how his life and experience at school has changed in the past year, what he loves about his clinic experience, and why the warehouse-turned-chiropractic-school still has bare walls, floors, and no ceiling tiles.

Note: The ideas and opinions offered in this discussion are those of the host and guests and do not reflect the institutions discussed.

Check out Life Chiropractic College West

Life West is located in Hayward, California, just across the bay from San Francisco. The curriculum focuses on correction of the vertebral subluxation and aims to give each student "an appreciation for the innate potential of the human body to heal and adapt to its environment."

Audio Only

The audio version of this discussion is available as a podcast. Just search for "Exploring Chiropractic" in iTunes. Or listen to it below.

Angel's Story

If you haven't yet, be sure to watch Angel's videos about his experience transferring to Life West, and leave him a comment!

Show Transcript

Nathan Cashion: This is exploring chiropractic episode two for July 14th, 2013. Life chiropractic college West with Angel Ochoa.

back to exploring chiropractic the online show for pre chiropractic chiropractic students. I'm Nathan Cashin. Today, we're going to be hearing from angel show a 10th quarter student at life chiropractic college West who transferred from the university of Western States in our discussion. Angel shares have his life and experience at school has changed in the past year.

What he loves about his clinic experience and why the warehouse turned chiropractic school. It still has bare walls, floors, and no ceiling tiles. If you haven't yet be sure to check out our last episode with Scott dawns from Logan university, and also take a look@exploringchiropractic.com because since then I've added some new material, including these maps of all of the chiropractic schools in the U S and across the globe.

And before we begin, I need to give a quick shout out to dr. Thomas Lamar over at. Spinal column radio. Dr. Lamar is a chiropractor and podcaster. Who's been going strong for over four years. Now. He got in touch with me shortly after episode. One of exploring chiropractic hit the iTunes podcast library to invite me onto his show, to get the word out about exploring chiropractic.

Since then, I've been listening to hours and hours of past episodes of spinal column radio. And I've really been impressed with just how entertaining and informative and chiropractic podcasts can be. If you want to hear my interview with dr. Lamar check out episode one 65 of spinal column radio on iTunes or@spinalcolumnradio.com.

And I want to welcome any listeners here for the first time because of spinal column radio. Be sure to check out exploring chiropractic.com. Let me know what you think of the show. Join our Google plus community and just send me a message. If you want to be on the show and share your experience as a chiropractic student.

Well, our guests, this episode is also no stranger to spinal column radio. Having been mentioned on dr. Lamar show a time or two angel had show up, posted a video almost exactly one year ago today that has hit nearly 2000 views on YouTube. And it's still getting responses just about every week. Angel felt compelled to make this video after a difficult time in his first six quarters at university of Western States.

And he finally decided to switch to life West. And it's been great for him since. Take a listen to this short clip to understand a little better, why angel decided to post his story,

Angel Ochoa: because what I want to share, and the reason I'm making this message is for those students out there that are currently in a chiropractic program and are miserable that are questioning if they even want to become chiropractors anymore or questioning, if this is the right career for them, I want them to know that chiropractic school can be fun.

Chiropractic school can be a place of love, compassion, and service, where you actually feel. Grateful every day to be on campus, grateful to be around your classmates and grateful for the amazing faculty and professors that you have. That's what I'm experiencing every day at Lifeway,

Nathan Cashion: you can see that whole video@exploringchiropractic.com or just search YouTube for my chiropractic story.

I want to remind you that we conduct our discussions as a Google hangout on Google plus. So you can go to plus.google.com. Search for exploring chiropractic, join that community and you'll be notified of upcoming discussions and you can join in. You can also watch the whole video of this discussion@exploringchiropractic.com and just look for the podcast archive.

And I want to ask you for giving us this once. Cause I made a rookie mistake and forgot to find out when angel had to leave. And so we got short on time. We got started late. I had some technical troubles at the beginning and we just couldn't get it all to the questions that I wanted to ask him. So I apologize for that and for the rushed and nervous nature of the discussion, but we're hoping to get angel back on in the future.

And we have so many cool things to talk about down at life West that I'm really looking forward to this show. So angel, thank you so much for sharing your story, uh, on YouTube and getting me interested in joining me on exploring chiropractic.

Angel Ochoa: Of course. Thanks for having me.

Nathan Cashion: We're also joined, uh, via some Android phone without video by Mariana Ramirez.

How you doing?

Mariana: Well video lists.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. Well that's all right. Most people I think will listen with just audio. So angel, I want to just kind of jump right in it and I want to know how has your life changed and how has school changed since you transferred to life West?

Angel Ochoa: Uh, it's a good question. Um, let's see.

Life's life's great. I'm really enjoying life West. Um, I'm trying to see what's the biggest change. Um, I'd say probably the biggest change for me is I feel out of the program as much more emphasized on the chiropractic aspect. So it's really focused, heavy on the actual adjustment, uh, which I, um, I'm really loving.

I'm loving that. We're about 10 different techniques that we're working on. I'm loving the Bay area a lot less rain, which has been pretty sweet. Um, yeah, no things are going really well.

Nathan Cashion: Good. So yeah, I forgot to mention Carlos, are you jumped in right when I was beginning? How are you doing. I'm not hearing you, Carlos, you're going to have to check your audio.

You go up to the little gear icon that might help. So Andrew, I've had a similar experience in my undergrad where I've picked a school and I was super excited. I, you know, I got there in the first little bit was all right, but then I just started feeling like it wasn't really what I expected. And often I was kind of contemplating, you know, chicken out and transferring, but I really didn't have the courage.

What did it take for you to make that decision? Uh, you know, in my

Angel Ochoa: sixth quarter there at a Western States, um, we had, I had the joy of a professor, dr. Carnes and dr. Hoyer. Um, and that pretty much did it for me. Uh, it was a quarter also that I have part one boards with it. And so, um, we have part one boards and then the next week we had about 15 finals and it pretty much broke me.

Um, I passed part one boards, which was great, but I did not pass all my classes and I've never worked so hard in my entire life and not. Succeeded in something. And so after that, I just realized that, um, the workload that Western States is putting me through of having to draw blood and things like that was just not the way I saw chiropractic.

Nathan Cashion: Okay. So what does chiropractic mean to you? How would you define it for

Angel Ochoa: me? You know, I feel chiropractic our goal is, um, to find and correct vertebral subluxations. And so one thing for me that's very important is to actually be able to use that word in a program in our curriculum, and to be able to talk about things like innate, innate intelligence, subluxation, And those are words that were, I felt made fun of when I was at Western States.

And that was something I really struggled with from the beginning.

Nathan Cashion: So you tend to lean a little more towards the philosophy?

Angel Ochoa: Yeah, very much to say very

Nathan Cashion: much so. And how do you define the philosophy of chiropractic.

Angel Ochoa: Um, well, you know, the philosophy of chiropractic is based off, you know, much of the writings of BJ Palmer, um, you know, a good book that kind of touches a lot on is the chiropractic textbook by Stevenson.

Um, so really talks about, you know, 33 main principles that are part of chiropractic, and that's the way to focus, you know, as a chiropractor to treat one's patients.

Nathan Cashion: So, did you feel that Western States, they kind of the curriculum lacked philosophy?

Angel Ochoa: Definitely. I feel that it was very heavy on the science and pretty much lacking in that philosophy.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. I have to say I'm a. I felt a little bit disappointed in that, you know, even though we have philosophy classes, we don't really go into it deep and we don't at least not yet. And so I have to say I'm only in third quarter, uh, and this semester looks a little more promising. Dr. Partner's classes been pretty exciting so far we've only had one, two hours, but, um, you know, I I'm on one side of the, you know, the philosophy versus science thing.

And as I've said before, this isn't a debate. Um, but even though I lean a little more towards. The science side of it. I want that philosophy. I want to understand it. I wonder, I understand how things have progressed. And so I agree with you that I'm a little disappointed that I'm not getting that yet. And it sounds like maybe I won't get as much as I want.

Mariana: Yeah, my input is since I already went through the first philosophy class that we have, you can't see me, but my, you know, quote unquote philosophy. Um, it's more like a biomechanics class and you philosophy comments that we get are pretty much putting down the. Quote unquote, straight of characteristic.

And that's the part that I actually talked to dr. Parden about that. I don't agree with. If we're going to get exposed to something, I don't want to have a bias against it going into it, especially if I've never heard of it. I don't want to have an influence outside of me, closing me to investigating more just because.

People are making fun of it in class, or even the teacher himself kind of promotes that type of, you know, biased opinion against it. So I don't know, I don't think it's his purpose to put us against it. It's just the way that it comes off and the way that it's perceived in class. So. I agree with you and angel, I would like to have more philosophy without that sort of bias against it.

More like here's the information. Now you do whatever you want with it.

Nathan Cashion: Right. So, Carlos, uh, you joined, uh, the chiropractor program with me and I understand that you're kind of exploring the option of other schools. Is that right?

Carlos Sandoval: Yeah, I'm just kinda, can you hear me now?

Nathan Cashion: I can't. Yeah.

Carlos Sandoval: Okay. Yeah. I'm just checking it off is out there.

Kind of like Mariana said, it's kind of hard to get a good idea of what the truth really is, I guess, because everyone's so damn bias about what, what they're at, you know what I mean? Or about UWS everyone's bias over there. I'm sure there's some bias people at every school. You know what I mean? So it's really hard to actually try and figure out what you really want without actually getting any truth, because no, one's really going to give you any truth, no matter where you're at, it's just, I guess you just have to go and find out and learn on your own.

But I mean, I've met like great people, like angel who have shared their experience, you know, and it's, it's appealing. So, I mean, but I'm just, I'm just going around. I'm going to start checking out other schools next week and. I'm just going in there the open mind and try and get an opinion on my own for every place, instead of just kind of, you know what I mean?

Nathan Cashion: Yeah.

Carlos Sandoval: Cause I mean, there's a lot of bad, a lot of bad stuff said, not like really bad stuff, but uh, people kind of against like the philosophy based schools at like what I got from UWS, you know what I mean? So. I mean, I want to see what it's really about.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. Great idea. I went to five schools before I picked one and I don't think that was enough. You know, I wish I had gone to Palmer. I wish I had gone maybe even a Parker. Um, I just think it's so hard to really get to the core of what. The schools are going to be like, man, of course, that's why I'm doing this.

That's why I want to share this, this, uh, program with everyone. So, Andrew, I want to, I want to know, sorry, go ahead, Carlos.

Carlos Sandoval: Oh, I was just gonna say I, and I UWS is the only school I looked at and I mean, I was just so excited about the whole thing. I just pulled the trigger and put a tuition deposit and.

Put a deposit on a house and just started there. There was the first school I, as, as I was like, Oh, you know, I liked the area, like the school. This is where I'm going. And I really didn't know anything about chiropractic. And honestly, I still don't like it. So, I mean, there's so much out there. And then there's like I said, everything's bias.

And some people say this, some people say that and so hard to get a true opinion on what, what you really. Think, you know what I mean?

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. It's a huge world. And I've been even in, just in the past week or two, like listening to hours and hours of podcasts and it's overwhelming to me the differences in opinions.

And of course they're not presented as opinions they're presented as yeah. Uh, and it does kind of drive me nuts, but yeah. It, if this is what we're going into and, you know, going to load on 150 K in debt, I think it's worth spending that time. So, Andrea, what, with your hands perspective now, what are the important things to look for in a school?

Angel Ochoa: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, a few, you know, Carlos was talking about how he never really got the chance to look at other schools and you pick that based on location, which I think a lot of students do.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah.

Angel Ochoa: Um, I think it's really important to go explore different schools. And

Nathan Cashion: I'm not trying to

Angel Ochoa: say that, you know, Lifewise is the right school and the only school.

Um, but it's for me personally, the right school and Western States look not a right fit, but there are students that love Western States that love the science aspect and that's fantastic. So I think, well, one really needs to do is go tour the schools and find out where they feel that they connect with the students that are there with the, um, the curriculum and the location as well of where the school's located.

It's kind of a trifecta, you know, you have to find a place that you'd be willing to live and enjoy, um, a school that you, you hopefully will enjoy their culture, as well as, you know, there's all the academics and boards and all that fun stuff that we have to get through as well.

Nathan Cashion: I'm totally behind you. Um, and again, I, I visit lots of schools in Western States was the one that I chose.

And you saying your video, I love how you mentioned kind of the feeling of despair that you had when you were at Western States. And how alive and just how excited and happy you are now to be at, at life West. And I, I would think, I can't say this for sure, but I would almost have reversed that for me. If I had gone in life, was it before.

You know, I think I would have felt as you felt here and when I moved, so it's, I don't think there is a right answer to which school you should go to. No, not at all where you feel comfortable and what, you know, what makes you excited about the profession? So I'm, so

Mariana: if I can add some. Thing. I think it also has to do with your own beliefs, your own philosophy, like Carlos was saying, he didn't really know what chiropractic is.

He hasn't found it out for himself. And I think for me, at least having been adjusted by a really good chiropractor. And my life changed completely is what helped me define what chiropractic is and what I want to give to other patients. And so based on that, I want to find a curriculum that fits my, my goals, what I want to deliver to my patients, which is put adjustments, a variety of advisement.

So if something is not working for them, their body is not running. I can say, you know what? I have like

which is the theme is, um, Maybe I don't like about this offer.

Nathan Cashion: Sorry. I got to interrupt you cause your audio is getting a little distorted. So can't really understand what you're saying right now. So let's give that just a minute. Um, hopefully that'll get better. Um, but I want to hear what you said, uh, while, so while we're waiting, um, I want to share something just real quick, uh, just to give you a chance to get that going.

Um, I put together over the break. I hope you guys are seeing this. Now I'm on exploring chiropractics.com/schools. I put together a map of all the schools in North America and then also all the ones across the globe. And I think this is kind of cool for me to see how many schools there were out there.

And so you guys can go here and take a look. There's a Palmer West, and I think. You're going to check that one out, Carlos, as well as, as life West. So, you know, head to the website and check this out, but I want to jump over to life West webpage and have angel tell us a little more about it. And I think they just updated the website.

Yeah,

Angel Ochoa: they did. I'm actually on the main page. That last photo I was on there, but it's not in that one where I'm jumping up or something. Yeah, I think after the hands . I'm on the far left, far left. Yes. That would be Johnny Chan's from Western States as well. And then I'm right by him.

Nathan Cashion: Awesome. So you guys are all jumping right in front of the school.

So tell me a little, well, when you wake up in the morning and head over to school, what's kind of the first thing you see. By the school. Yeah, what's the campus like

Angel Ochoa: the campus is, uh, different than Western States for sure. Um, the campus is a actually kind of a large, um, really large building from the outside.

It doesn't seem very impressive to be quite honest. Um, but when you walk inside, it's really open and, um, they basically have skylights to the whole school that kind of lights it up. And, um, everyone kind of meets in the main area, which is called Sid square and the same after Steve Williams. And it's basically, there's a fountain and it's kind of a TVs and it's kind of where one meets in the center of campus.

And then from there basically branches out in four directions, kind of Northeast, South and West. And, uh, that's what the classrooms and lecture halls are, um, basically located.

Nathan Cashion: Cool. Now I visited it, uh, Maybe four, four years ago or so, and yeah, I remember it was, it was a little surprising to me that it's, it has the appearance of a big warehouse, right.

That right. And on the inside. From what I remember, there's lots of just kind of bare brick walls and S almost cement floors that gave me the feeling of kind of being in Costco. Is that how it is still or?

Angel Ochoa: Well, I do love Costco, so I'm a little biased with that. Um,

Nathan Cashion: um, it's

Angel Ochoa: still concrete that there's no ceiling tiles there and, you know, part of the reason that, um, they didn't put ceiling tiles in.

It's much like the human body. We don't realize what's below our skin. And when you're moved to ceiling tiles tiles, for example, you realize there's all these cables and connections and wires that make the campus what it is. And so I was kinda one of the founding ideas of the school to have it as exposed as much as possible, kind of related to the human body.

That there's a lot more under the skin than we realize.

Nathan Cashion: Okay. I had heard when I was there, that there was a purposeful reason for them to do that and that they had, but they never explained it. So I'm glad you shared that. That's kind of cool. So I do bring this up for a reason though, because I wonder. F at first, it made me a little uncomfortable and I'll be honest, coming to life West.

Uh, at first I was a little disappointed cause it's an old, or I'm sorry, not to life West Western state, you know, it used to be a Catholic girls school in some of the buildings have gotta be from, I don't know, the 50, 60, I was a little disappointed at first, but does it, does that matter to you? What the building is like?

Angel Ochoa: Um, not really, uh, what, what I feel like when I get inside of the building is so valuable. That, to be honest, I never really focused on what the actual building itself is. Like, just because I feel like it's, uh, the environment there is so great.

Nathan Cashion: I'd agree. I mean, but I'd have to say that now. I don't really think about it anymore.

So I'm glad that you kind of share that opinion.

What did you think, Carlos, do you think that the campus is a big factor? Hmm,

Carlos Sandoval: no, not really. I don't. I never really thought about, I mean, if it's nice, it's nice. I mean, I'm sure if it's, you don't want to be in an ugly place all day or someplace where you feel cooped up. But, I mean, they're not horrible at Western States, so I really don't have, I don't know.

I don't have much to say about that. Really never thought about it.

Nathan Cashion: Cool. All right. No, that's good to hear. Um, so tell us a little more about the school. Um, where do you spend most of your day angel?

Angel Ochoa: Yeah, so now I'm, I'm at my 10th quarter, so I'm in the outpatient clinic now. So the majority of my time is spent working in the clinic.

Um, I do still have classes in the morning, Monday through Friday, pretty much from seven 30 to about noon. Um, but from noon to about seven is, um, time at the clinic is open. And so I feel like I spend the majority of my day in the clinic and that would be, you know, caring for patients and. Um, all that good stuff.

So, um, our clinic system is a two floor clinic. There's a bottom floor and top floor and I'm, I'm on the bottom floor. And that said most

Nathan Cashion: of my day there, before the show, you were telling me around a little bit about your experience in clinic, how's it been?

Angel Ochoa: Clinic's been really great. Um, so the, the way that the program is structured, it life West is.

We're required to bring 10 new patients into our clinic, um, to graduate. So it's a graduation requirement, um, which is what it's going to be like a practice we're going to have to actually go out and get patients as well. Uh, so I was pretty fortunate to have this really great lady that works at the schools.

She's a Spanish speaker and she's has nine of her family members coming in with her. Now, her children, her grandparents, her parents, Apple uncle, and an aunt. It's just this really amazing humbling experience to have a family all come in to be under your care. And from that, just have these great results and show up early to their appointments.

Just be so thankful. And that's been, it's been really great. I'm really, really loving clinic.

Nathan Cashion: So you're bilingual. I am, I am. And do you enjoy using that language

Angel Ochoa: in the class? I do. It's funny. I didn't really think about it when I went to chiropractic school, but being bilingual is such an asset. The, especially the Spanish speaking community here in the, in the States is.

It was really underserved, the Spanish speaking providers. And so to be able to offer that to my patients is just really a gift that I'm really fortunate to have

Nathan Cashion: in your YouTube video. And maybe it's in the more recent one. I can't remember. You mentioned that at life West, you have lots of opportunities to work internationally.

What are those opportunities? Uh, I don't recall

Angel Ochoa: saying anything about international opportunities, um, but. Are opportunities to do mission trips as a Western state students, you have that opportunity as well. Um, there's a few different groups. Um, I think one was called spinal missions and, um, Liam shovels group has an, the only requirement is that you are a chiropractic student and you're basically able to go on these mission trips.

And depending on your level of experience, you either do intake work, or if you do have adjusting experience, you know, you're basically then able to adjust patients. That was one thing. When I was at Western States, I was really wanting to do, and I went to student services and I was told that we had no options to do so.

Um, but now that I'm, uh, likewise, I realized that these are actually open to any student. So if you're at Western States or Palmer or Parker or any of those schools, you are able to go on a mission trip. It's just not sponsored by the school.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. So that's pretty interesting. Cause I've, before I started school, I was almost thinking of going into like the peace Corps and I really am interested in going overseas and, and doing that.

So spinal missions as well,

Angel Ochoa: right early on the front, actually that's Amy Logan. So she's a student at life West.

Nathan Cashion: Awesome. And how long do you go?

Angel Ochoa: Uh, it's usually a week. So that one looks like that's the El Salvador trip and that I believe it was last year and it's a week long trip. And you adjust anywhere between two to 500 people.

Nathan Cashion: I've, I've heard a lot about this, uh, during my meetings with Palmer and they go, you know, they go to Haiti, they go to all over the world, correct?

Angel Ochoa: Correct. It's pretty amazing. I mean, this is just one of many groups. There's about four or five different. Um, if you just type in chiropractic mission trip on Google, you'll get four or five different things that come up.

And, uh, just a really great way to get your hands, um, working on various patients and really working on your clinical skills. And, uh, you're always working with licensed docs that are overseeing everything you do. So you're not just out there being a rogue adjuster.

Nathan Cashion: That's awesome. So I want to give a little time to Carlos and Marianna to ask any questions and let's start with Marianna.

Uh, if you wanted to finish what you were saying before.

Mariana: Yeah. Can you tell me where it cut off or should I just start to summarize from the beginning?

Nathan Cashion: Go ahead and go ahead and summarize. Okay.

Mariana: So I was saying that to me, the way that I would now look for a school is thinking of what I want to deliver to my patients and find a curriculum that gives me those tools to be the doctor that I have in mind for the people that I want to help.

And the situation that I'm in right now is finding out that we. Only learn one technique being at Western States, which is diversified. And I would really want to have the opportunity

Nathan Cashion: to learn

Mariana: about Thompson, SLT guns. Did you know, just there's so many techniques that. Having only one in school, it feels really limiting.

And I just want to be able to help people. And if they're not responding to my treatment, then try a different way. And if not in another way, I don't want to ever give up on a patient because I can't adjust them or because my treatment is not working for them. I want to be able to help them no matter what.

Nathan Cashion: So you feel that the, the limitation. Uh, I'm just getting the one technique might keep you from doing that.

Mariana: Yes.

Nathan Cashion: So angel, what techniques are taught at like West?

Angel Ochoa: Uh, so let's see, we were taught diversified Gonstead, uh, drop table activator, um, sot,

Nathan Cashion: um,

Angel Ochoa: the chest toggle. Uh,

Nathan Cashion: these are all included in the curriculum or these other two

Angel Ochoa: that are elective, as I mentioned, activator and sot or electives in knee chest as well.

But the core adjustments that we get credit for in-clinic as a standard adjustment is diversified. Gonstead toggle a drop table, and there is one more that is escaping me right now.

Nathan Cashion: All right. And you mentioned, uh, There's lots of clubs that like West, from what I remember visiting them too, uh, you had trouble starting a club at Western States.

Were you able to get that up and running down there?

Angel Ochoa: Um, yeah. So there's 38 active clubs at, um, life West, meaning they actually meet. That was a struggle I had at Western States with the clubs didn't really meet when I was there. And I think it's just with the course load. It's hard to be able to do so.

Uh, the club I tried starting at a Western States was a veterinary chiropractic club. Uh, there's already one at, uh, Western. I like West called the animal chiropractic club. And so I'm a part of that, but I did start a club at, um, light West. That's called spectrum and it's a GLBT club.

Nathan Cashion: Okay. Yeah, we have, I think it's somewhere around 12 clubs.

I just started one. My first meeting is on Tuesday and I'm super nervous about whether anybody's going to show up because the attendance said many of the club meetings is pretty low. Uh, and yeah, I think it might be because of the, the course load. So do you feel that the course load at life West is just a bit lighter?

Angel Ochoa: Yes. Uh, I mean, w we have the same number of hours of classes, but the amount of studying that we have to do is not nearly as intensive as it was at, um, at Western States, which gives me a lot more time to go to weekend seminars and work on adjusting. And I'm playing tennis now, and I'm able to do a cleanse and do yoga and workout, and I just have much more.

Angel time now, which is really nice.

Nathan Cashion: Why do you think that is that it's that you don't have to study as much? No, I

Angel Ochoa: think the difference is, is, you know, I, I remember vividly like what, sorry, Western States having, you know, 50 pages of notes to get through like Kaminski notes, for example, to get through for physiology, you know, it's a huge stack.

And when you would ask, well, what do I need to focus on? It would be like, Oh yeah. Right, exactly. So now I just feel like the material is much more focused to clinically what we really need to know. So we're, we're really kind of more guided on this is the stuff that's really important. I feel like they, both schools go over the same amount of material.

It just in regards to what we actually need to study, I feel like it's much more focused at life West. So it's, we're going to go over a hundred pages, but these 20 pages of the meat of what you really need to know for clinical practice.

Nathan Cashion: Carlos. You got anything to ask? Well,

Carlos Sandoval: my question kind of bays out like a Mariano's is like, okay, your life West curriculum might incorporate like four or five different techniques that you have to know compared to university of Western States where it's a diversified is the main one.

Do you feel angel? Do you feel that. It's harder to learn all five different techniques and be really good at all of them. Or like, you feel like you lack in some of the techniques or compared to just learning one.

Angel Ochoa: Yeah. That's a good question. Uh, yeah, definitely. Um, I feel that there are three that I am much more interested in than the other two.

Um, For example, one of them is toggle, which is an upper cervical, which only adjusting basically the two top bones. And, um, that's not really something I'm super interested in, but there are a lot of kids in school that that's really their main focus. They want to be upper cervical practitioners. I'm more of a full spine, um, person.

So I enjoy adjusting extremities or, you know, whatever needs to be adjusted. I will, I'm happy to adjust. And so that is my focus. So I put the majority of my time into that, that type of, um, practice. So it was my toggle adjusting. Very good. No, it's not, but it's not what I'm focusing, what I personally focus on.

Whereas there's other kids that are really focused in doing upper cervical and their extremity adjusting probably isn't that great. So it gives you the opportunity to focus on what you want.

Carlos Sandoval: That was like one of the main things I always hear when comparing schools is like, Oh, well, we learn. One and we're experts at one or two compared to other schools while they try and teach 12 different ones.

But they're not an expert in any

Angel Ochoa: it's. All right. Right. No, I mean, I feel like I'm far from being an expert, you don't have to still in school. And I feel like that expertise comes much after graduation, but, um, I, I feel that. My adjusting has improved greatly since I've transferred. And that being, if I only have my diversified bag of tricks that I learned at Western States, some of the issues I'm being presented with in clinic are challenges I'm presented with.

I wouldn't have known how to adjust, but since I had some, Oh, some drop table knowledge and some gongs, that knowledge I kind of was able to pull that together to, to find a way to make it work. Whereas the one way I learned wasn't working, I was able to kind of pull out of my bag of tricks, a couple other techniques.

Carlos Sandoval: Yeah. I mean, there's some, there's been times where I had a personal experience where I like wanted to see if I could get my shoulder adjusted and they were having trouble. They didn't know any like extremity adjustments or they could remember any and they just kept saying, Oh, well, let's try this or let's try this.

And then also sometimes when I'm getting work, would I would get work on in the clinic. Uh, diversified for me. Like I'm a big guy, you know, so, but I dunno if it's just, I'm a beer guy or just how it is. Cause I don't know how it feels for other people, but to me sometimes even just getting it thoracic adjustment with diversified kind of felt uncomfortable for me.

So I didn't know if that's how I feel for someone else. If that's how, like other people felt. I felt like real crushed in real, like a lot of pressure in my chest and everywhere else. So like if I don't like it, I, I wouldn't want to do it to. To someone else, but then I'm not sure if just because I'm a big guy or if, or if that's how it feels for everyone, you know what I mean?

So, I mean, I am interested in learning a lot of techniques and I want to treat, be able to treat anything that's thrown at me. So like, you might be right. It might be eliminated only being only learning like diversified because I want to be good at extremities too. I really I'm really interested in extremities.

So I like to be really good at that too. Just anything that's thrown at me is what I want to do. So I'm just like, I want to bet. And do you, do you know any, do you have any comparison for us toward the clinical hours? Like, do you know the difference in clinical hours from just even university of Western States to life West?

You know, like what students at your students, your friends from university of Western States are you guys have the same amount of clinical hours or

Angel Ochoa: to graduate. CCE mandates, you have to have, I believe it's 250 outpatient adjustments, 50 student adjustments. And I want to say something like 200 and maybe 300 clinical hours in the clinic where you're basically clocked in.

These are many hours. Um, what I found was most people at Western States just did the minimums that they needed. So it's like our getting my two 50, my 15 and my hours. Whereas I find it at life West. Um, we still have to have those same hours, but for example, um, you know, hoping to get three, 400 adjustments while I'm in clinic and my hours, I'm already, I already think I have all the hours.

I need them there all the time. Um, so that's just the difference is that we're able to be there as much as we want, and we can do more than the minimum because we're able to book our own schedules where it a Western States. My understanding is, um, they tell you when you're going to be in clinic, You can say, Oh, you don't want to do it Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.

They're going to say, ah, Nope. Carlos, it's going to be Monday from this time, Tuesday from this time of Friday from this time.

Nathan Cashion: Yeah. Hey angel. We're getting short on time and I want to respect your time. I know we've got school starting tomorrow again. So we got, we have a lot of studying to do, but Hey, I want to ask just a couple more quick questions and then, uh, let you go.

So. If you could change one thing about life West, what would it be?

Angel Ochoa: Probably their attendance policy. Um, they're very, very strict on attendance, uh, that is different than Western States who was not as strict. Um, so they would do what's called cutting. So if you miss more than 20% of your class, you're automatically dropped from the class.

Nathan Cashion: Wow. So they just think,

Oh yeah, sometimes I'm a little worried about, uh, how many people skip class. So if you, if you were to talk to a student, who's thinking of going to chiropractic school, which schools would you recommend?

Angel Ochoa: Oh, well, this is based off my bias, obviously being very heavy philosophy base, but I would, uh, talk about life West, uh, life in Georgia and Sherman in South Carolina.

Those would be the three that I would, I would recommend, um, for students.

Nathan Cashion: Awesome. Well, Hey, thank you so much for your time. We're going to wrap it up now. Don't go away, uh, for those watching. Thanks for joining us. Live on exploring chiropractic, and you can always find the show on exploring chiropractic.com/hangouts.

And thanks again. Angela Shaw from life chiropractic college West can find out more about life West at life, west.edu. Thanks a lot to Carlos and Marianna as well.

Angel Ochoa: Thank you.

Nathan Cashion: Well, that about wraps it up for this episode of exploring chiropractic. I thank you for joining us. Um, after we kind of wrapped up this episode though angel and the other students, and I got to stick around for just a few more minutes chatting and we realized there's so much more to cover such as did angel have take any classes and what does it mean to talk that tick?

So we're definitely going to bring him back on the show. And hopefully have a couple other students from life West that maybe have a different perspective on the school. I want to remind you that none of our guests, including myself, represent any of the schools that we are discussing, we're simply sharing our personal experiences in chiropractic.

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